Being naturally attracted to shiny things, I got hold of Frances Goodman to chat about her upcoming, sensational, vajazzling exhibition, Sub Rosa, opening at The Goodman Gallery on Thursday night. The work’s garnered her a lot of interest and rightly so, since it’s not just an interesting topic and very well executed but it’s, well… bedazzled vaginas. It also sounds like something straight out of hip hop, so I decided to take her to a very public place and ask her about her work with crystallized bitches with a muthafucka of a *twist*.
Sylvia: We decided that since your vajazzling is mostly blinged out vaginas, we would ask you questions inspired by rap lyrics.
Frances Goodman: …Ok
S: So you sort of put pussy on a pedestal in a sense.
FG: What rap song’s that from?
S: It’s from Kendrick Lamar and also it’s a reference to Eddie Murphy, funnily enough. Hip Hop, in general, is a lot of references: everything in there isn’t necessarily what it really means. Actually, when rappers refer to women, they’re referring to hip hop itself and the way that they actually dominate the women. And stuff like that, in hip hop, is a way of saying that they are dominating the game, in a sense. But, um, not always… they’re also sometimes just terrible people. But in terms of Kendrick Lamar, instead of belittling women, he wrote about how he puts pussy on a pedestal which is sort of what you were doing. So let’s talk about…
FG: Pussy on a pedestal?
S: Yeah! [Laughs] Alright, so! Lil Wayne said that clothes are overrated and panties are debated, so what made you think of putting pussy on a pedestal and getting these women to expose themselves?
FG: After going to New York and having this idea that women in New York would be the epitome of liberated, free women, and going to numerous coffee shops and being this terrible voyeur that I am – listening to other people’s conversations – and realizing how many woman treated dating and their bodies quite sort of strategically. They’d go on these dates and there would be this whole plan and they’d go prepare their bodies and themselves for it, and book themselves into a spa for an afternoon and it just made me think about why women do that and why they feel the need to prep and preen. Because I don’t think men go to the same lengths to get ready, to be appealing and desirable.
Then I thought it all came down to the idea of desire and the idea of making yourself desirable. So, I started looking into it and then I came across vajazzling and I sort of thought that it pushes everything to the extreme, to the point of being ridiculous. I think we’ve sort of moved into a space where a lot of things have become quite ridiculous; the sort of fashion and trends and choices we make about our bodies are a bit excessive. So, I decided to do this project as a way of having a look at the way women look at their bodies and also to point out how extreme it’s become and how ridiculous it’s become too, I suppose.
S: So, in the beginning you had to try find these women. You basically were looking for a woman to put a stamp on. But then it got to the point that when it falls into your lap it’s a blessing and these women found you?
FG: In New York, I started when I put an ad in The Village Voice and found people through that. You know, that was really completely sort of random because you just don’t know who’s going to be reading The Village Voice. There was slight trepidation as to who was going to walk through your door and I was quite surprised how they were quite nice. You know, because people watch way too much Law and Order, who knows who’s going to arrive and also the Crime Channel…
S: [laughs] Yes, the Crime Channel is quite scary! Especially the psychic detectives.
FG: And now there’s, like, Nightmare Date and that kinda thing. But here, I did it through a Grazia article and at the end, people were invited to join. So yes, I started looking for people but then my whole life changed last year – well this year and last year – in that it’s all anyone talks to me about is vajazzling and vaginas. People really do like talking about vaginas. A lot.
S: Yeah, that’s pretty much all we’re going to be talking about now. A lot.
FG: Yes, so it went from search for people to people coming and volunteering and even now, when people meet me, they ask to be a part of it. So yes, it did change from searching to being sort sought out.
S: In hip hop it’s a big thing to assume that a lot of women are in it for the money, that they know that pussy ain’t free, but these were, right?
FG: Well, that was the deal, is that they weren’t offered any money. So, that was the first thing that was interesting; everyone who asked to be part of the project then got a response saying that would be great but you’re not getting money. They would receive a print in exchange for being part of it. And then they had to give a reason as to why they wanted to do it without receiving money, which is when the project started getting interesting, hearing all the different reasons.
S: So, they came to you with their stories and secrets? They would lie there and say things like “I don’t know this night just remind me of, everything they deprived me of?”
F: Yeah, they all came and sort of, a lot of their reasoning was very moving and poignant. And that what was interesting and complicated about the project is that I started the project thinking that the project was about highlighting how problematic the relationships we have with our bodies, and the relationships we have with the media and advertising, and how we’re sold this idea of what beautiful is, and what choices we make about our bodies. The whole project was supposed to be about things being pushed to the extreme and forcing people to question why we kinda buy into these systems and yet these women came with these stories that were really quite moving and were all about, sort of, how they wanted to do the project to own their body to, sort of, claim their body.
The project’s about how we lose our claim on our body by buying into these systems. So, then it was complicated because they came for a different reason. Yes, I think the project had much more depth when it started having this reasoning behind it.
S: So you thought that these women would be coming because they bought into a media driven, reality TV, exhibitionist lifestyle, but it was the opposite? Sort of how Nicki Minaj felt when she says “They judge me like the girls on trial but every time that I come out it’s just girls gone wild?”
F: Yeah, the project’s anonymous, they don’t get their names on it. Unless they want to go to the opening and go “this is me” which funny enough… [laughs] There were women who, sort of, lingered. In New York, the women were there but in Cape Town, the women we had had come from Johannesburg. So, in New York there were women who sort of [pretends to pose in front of imaginary photo of a spangly vagina.]
S [in pretend vajazzle model accent]: Oooh, yes, that’s me.
F: You know, sort of, telling their partners and stuff, well their partners would know, but you know, their friends. So it’ll be interesting because the women will be coming [to the opening on Thursday] and it’ll be interesting to see whether they claim their bodies and their image when they’re there or whether they want to extend their anonymity. And it’s completely up to them whether they want to or not. I don’t mind if they say “this is me” and have their photo taken next to it. It’s up to them.
S: Did you do the designs beforehand and figure it out or would you just use the women’s bodies as a type of inspiration? Sort of like free draw? And at what point, I mean, you might start, um, having fun?
F: No, no, to begin with I had a sort of sense of references I wanted to use but in many instances a woman would come and I’d end up doing something completely different to what I thought I wanted to do and that was partly because I really didn’t know what I was going to get.
S: Well, yeah at the gym they come in all different shapes and sizes.
F: Exactly. I asked people to describe their bodies but the way that I describe my body may not be how you would describe it. So, you get women who would say, “I’m average size” and probably really wouldn’t really be considered average, she’d be considered bigger. Or you’d get a woman who’d say that she’s average and she’d be tiny. So, you know, it was very interesting to see the way they viewed themselves, how societal norms of what the body is.
So, there was a lot of times that I had no idea about what I was gonna get and you’d have an idea that you would do one drawing but it wouldn’t necessarily work with the shape of the body. You know, some people are sort of longer, they’ve got more of a stomach or something like that. Or their skin coloring would work better with red, or they would be very pale and then a silver stone wouldn’t work. So, you’d kinda be thrown these curve balls. I generally had about 5 or 6 images that I had in my head but there were some instances that they got there and I did something completely different.
All the drawings were sort of free drawn on them so It wasn’t like there was an image that was transferred onto the body.
S: And then you would just randomly decide the stage that you got these hoes iced up enough?
F: Well, it was funny because the first ones are quite sort of small and by the end they almost come to the belly button cos you’re like, “Oh, I just wanna do more!” Yeah, you do get kinda into it, you kinda just wanna bling the hell out of it.
S: [laughs] So, vajazzling, I didn’t know it was a thing. I just kinda thought it was something you came up with, actually.
F: No, they do, yeah.
S: Wow… how do you get the stones to stick on? I found this lyric that said girls stick like crazy glue and that made me wonder how do the stones stick onto their… bodies?
F: Well, I had to do some research into it because actually the vajazzling that people do are these transfers. Those sticky ones that you stick them on [sticking on arm motions].
S: Like those Swarovski crystal tattoos?
F: Yes, like a Swarovski crystal tattoo for your… [pause]
S: Vagina?
F: Yeah, your vaginal area. But because all of these are all individually applied and not going to be transferred, I had to do quite a bit of research because I thought it’s quite a sensitive area and you don’t want to really cause any harm. I had a friend the other day that I was doing theses works with, and I had been using a glue gun and I had a burn on my thumb and he said to me, “When are you gonna stop doing those vajazzlings?” and I said, “You don’t really think I’m using a glue gun?”
S: That would hurt, like a lot.
F: It would cause third degree burns! It would be quite dangerous! So, actually I used eyelash glue cos it’s made for a very sensitive area of the body. The only problem that those caused is that they weren’t terribly permanent. But then it was quite good for the process because then it really was a drawing, it wasn’t something they could take away and go party with. Because with the eyelash glue and the movement, they only lasted for the duration of the shoot. Which was good because I didn’t want it to be something that she then went away with and said, “Surprise, honey!”, which is the point of the vajazzling. So I didn’t want it to then buy into the system and then become the same thing.
S: You said earlier that everyone has basically just been speaking to you about the vajazzling, but damn, baby, pussy can’t be your only hustle?
F: Sometimes I wonder!
S: [laughs] So, what else is going to be at the show?
F: Well it’s just small, in the viewing room. So it’s just small, intimate, which is why I called it Sub Rosa. Because Sub Rosa sort of means ‘the private’. So I was thinking the private room on the side where you go to see the sort of illicit secretive stuff. And then there’s a neon piece and one car bonnet but after that, it is just mostly vajazzling. It’s not big, it’s just sort of a taste of the exhibition as apposed to a big huge project.
S: What’s the next step moving forward? Do you still got pussy on your mind?
F: I don’t know. I keep being asked by people whether I’m going to do the project to men and why it’s been limited to women. But apart from the sort of um… practical… um… kind of… conundrums… that brings…
S: [all of the laughter]
F: I don’t know whether I would… necessarily… because I’m generally more interested in working with women’s issues and position of women. So, I’m still thinking about it because I think it could be an interesting project to do but I don’t know whether I am going to go there. I suppose I may be moving from pussies to nails now [laughs].
I’m actually planning a project about nail bars and working with women in nail bars. So, again, it’s a thing of painting up your body and again the stories about it. But we’ll see where that goes.
S: Awesome, so lastly would you say that on top of the world, life is a pussy buffet?
F: What does that mean? [laughs]
S: [laughs]
F: I think that quote is saying that when you’re doing really well you can have whatever pussy you want, right?
S: I think that’s what it’s trying to say.
F: Don’t know if that applies to me, I don’t know if I get all the pussy I want.
So there you have it, folks. Thanks to Frances Goodman for being such a good sport and putting pussy on a pedestal with us. Don’t forget to check out Sub Rosa this Thursday at 6:00pm at the Goodman Gallery and, just like Yeezy says, you’d probably find one of them ‘I like art’ type girls and have all the blinged out pussy you want.